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| Verity Brown |
 Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:29 am |
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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Midwest USA
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I've been considering the significance of the name "Spinner's End," particularly for a good Snape. I would like to think that this isn't just a name she pulled out of the air, for no purpose. Especially since this was one of the three chapter titles that was revealed in advance.
If one assumes that Snape is still good, this chapter title is loaded with meaning. He's been trying to spin a careful web of deception to maintain his cover as a DE (he even uses the word, in this chapter, to describe his activities). But here, when he is compelled to agree to the third (and unexpected) provision of the Unbreakable Vow, he very literally comes to an "end" of his options. He is like a spider trapped in his own web. Either he must kill Dumbledore (or let Draco do it) or die himself.
I think this significance is compounded by the fact that Snape finally gets the DADA job, which we now know really *is* cursed. Surely that points to the fact that Dumbledore is aware that Snape now has a "sell by" date stamped on his backside, and one way or another will not be back to teach the following year.
The name "Spinner's End" does not have remotely that much significance if Snape is really evil.
Verity |
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I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever. |
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| sevfank |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:47 am |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 6
Location: kansas
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Well, I must not be too convinced of his total evilness because I can't help the thoughts that rushed into my head of his having a sell-by date. Do you think I could pick him up cheap as he gets closer to his sell-by date? I'll put him back on the shelf when I'm done, Pleeease?
I do think you raise some good symbolism issues with the spider/spy spinning their webs of deceit. |
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| JackieJLH |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:21 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Florida, USA
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Interestingly enough, a spider spinning a careful web comes to Harry's mind when he's thinking about Slughorn, and we all know how much JKR likes to misdirect...
Just a thought... |
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~Jackie
I once had a real life. Then I discovered Harry Potter. Then I discovered Harry Potter on the internet... *shrug* Real life is overrated anyway. |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:16 am |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Or, it may be just a good street name near a cloth mill, where there are spinners.
Beware of over analysis. |
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| Iseult |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:36 am |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
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Location: Newcastle, Australia
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Geography is not my best subject however the internet was able to provide the location of two real life Spinner's End street.
One is in the West Midland and another in Weston-Super-Mare on the West Coast of England. It is also of the same latitude as Bath but approx 20 miles from Bristol. I know the first is northern.
According to Wikipedia the Weston area was a seaside resort that later housed aircraft production and other industry. In this town Roald Dahl (a children's writer at least as brilliant as JKR) went to school and additionally John Cleese (who is Sir Nick in the movie series) was born there!
The northern Spinner's End is home to many people of the name of Homer.
Perhaps JKR used the title chapter to be a compliment to Roald Dahl and/ or Cleese. They are certainly inspirational enough to warrant it. Rupert Grint was given a nod in the book by JKR when Slughorn calls Ron "Rupert". It may be a little trail.
Normally, I woul't make the leap but the connection is nice and clever.
However, chapter one refers three times to the Westy Country (the Hurricanes/suspected giant action) in the chapter prior to Spinner's End tips the scales, from my viewpoint. I don't particularly read much meaning into it. It is an additonal pointer to Snape's presumed activity at most.
It could refer to Snape weaving a tangled web through his deception but this suggestion from the title is ambiguous and daoes not clarify his loyalty. |
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| ambi76 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:18 am |
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Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 9
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Not only do the web-of-lies-spinning bits apply, but JKR's referred to him as a spider before, also, in Snape's Worst Memory.
He was twitchy, and moved like a spider.
I never noticed this until re-reading OotP after being knocked silly from HBP and needing to review.  It has an air of simple coincidence, but it'd be a nice, cute connection nonetheless. |
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| EnigmaVX |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:21 pm |
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Joined: 22 Jul 2005
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Starting with Unbreakable Vow I think the title of the chapter is very telling, Spinner’s End perhaps reference to a spider or one who spins things… first reflections says Snape as the Spinner since he is the spy weaving his lies and in several ways it could be argued the killing of Dumbledore does end some things for Snape. But I think the title is more ominous and is not the head of a spy ring considered a spider sending his various spies here and there??? Could it have not perhaps refereed to Dumbledore and not Snape because the vow lead ultimately his death? I could go on but will refrain unless asked.
Is not a spy master i.e. the one in charge of the spies is oft refereed to as a spider he/she sits in the middle of a web/network of informants. The spider is the one that directs the various aspects of the web. Does this not fit what Dumbledore was doing? Was not it him who directed the Order and its informants? Did he not decide who he told what and parcel out information to the Orders members? Example he decided just what Harry would be told...would not he have done that with others? The battle in a sense was his chess game his web. All spy masters run the risk of the lack of full information leading not only to the loss of a spy but themselves as well. They are piecing together bits and pieces to try and decipher what the enemy is up to or planning. Can we not assume Snape would have been expected to do just what he did with Cissy and Bella? Last the chapter Spinners End did lead not to Snapes death but Dumbledores though the actions of one of his spies.
If we go with the meaning of Spinner's End as an metaphor for a spider. Then perhaps Aragog death takes on new meaning and applies too since JK likes to use foreshadowing alot. Aragog, like Dumbledore, sits in the middle of the web as patriarch of the spiders they follow his orders much as Dumbledores are followed even by people like Mundangus. As Aragog weakened his orders were not being completely followed (Hagrid..".see it's the rest of the tribe...Aragog's family...they're getting a bit funny now he's ill..bit restive...")...We know Dumbledore was also weakened his hand was not healing and he seemed as noted by Harry previously old tired etc...Mundangus was also doing things without Dumbledores permission (pilfering #12). Rosmerta was under an Imperius Curse this slipped by Dumbledore's notice and that of his spies, indication that his web unraveling? i.e. The lines of info represented by the threads of a web. What else was happening within the order? We know Tonks was off her game, this begs the question who else was...and just how frayed was Dumbledore's web did he even realize it was damaged or if he did how badly?
After Aragogs death the other spiders won't let Hagrid near their webs period. This makes me wonder just what shape the Order will be in in book 7 since like Aragog Dumbledore was isolated (note JK's comments in interview about his having no partner etc) if my rambling has any significance that is...
Snape, how will this effect him in book 7. I hate to believe that Dumbledore's big mistake would be his isolation and no confidante to tell about his plan to, although I prefer that as his mistake to it being having trusted Snape...I suppose this is a new area to discuss after considering the issues.
Let me know what you think |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:14 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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I researched the possibilities of Spinner's End and its location.
I actually found a hugely atmospheric photograph.
The essay is on my live journal, here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/junediamanti/139235.html
You might find it interesting if only for the photo, and there is considerable analysis as to its possible locations, and why we can make a fairly good guess as to where JKR based it on.
The location "Spinner's End" is fictional. The place it might well have been based on, is not. |
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| Two Methyloctane |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:29 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Those pictures were exactly what I was imagining when I read the description. I can definately see Snape living there now.
The thing that always gets me is how small everything in Europe seems to be. The houses are small, the roads are small, the yards are small, but it seems completely perfect for the Snapes.
(I could be a wee bit biased on that though... until I moved out on my own I lived in the country on an acerage south of Calgary with no neighbours very close to me... I'm not used to small, efficient spaces, lol!)
But those pictures were absolutely brilliant, thanks for sharing the essay (which was also very interesting)! |
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| Lady Whitehart |
| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:26 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Location: East Coast USA
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| The pictures at your Lj were interesting to say the least. I myself grew up near a small brick town in south central PA and eventually ended up working in an equally, if not more so, rundown section of Philadelphia. It did remind me of some of the old rowhomes in the older sections of the city. |
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